paul vs jesus and james

December 12th, 2020

Jesus was a TORAH believer and his argument with the Pharisees was because they were TALMUDIC believers (Matthew ch 15; Matthew ch 23). You need to take up your argument against the Jesus position with HIM. Jesus himself was also unlettered in the formal terms that Paul would have known. I personally feel that pastors should never mention the letters of Paul of Tarsus without bringing them into context with the clear division in doctrine with the rest of the disciples and Jesus himself. Thanks for your reply. On the other hand, if some event or thing can be reasonably demonstrated as true then it provides a core foundation to make an effort to understand other things associated with it, even if on the surface they appear difficult. This is a demand for pure primitive tribal affinity; nothing more, nothing less. What does that have to do with the validity Jesus-Christianity? If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing … And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. Acts ch 1 from v. 16 Peter states the prerequisites of an apostle of Jesus Christ… Paul meets NONE of them..NOT ONE…infact he never even knew Jesus. Writing, speech, or thought about the nature and behavior of God. thanks for replying your points are all very interesting. John Painter, "James and Paul", n.p. Yet, I have found Jesus to be The Solution. Again (now you’re just repeating yourself), I don’t think neither Jesus nor his brother James changed their message depending on who they were talking to, and your rejection of their teaching in favor of an admitted persecutor of early Christians who was the one who held the coats of those who stoned the first Christian martyr, Stephen. My husband once said, “People would rather be dead than wrong.” Apparently Dawn would rather be damned than wrong. He has authored more than 50 books, and more than 30 years of his preaching and writing are available free of charge at desiringGod.org. ( see Mal ch 1 vs 3-4) and never been in bondage…and v 44 that they are the sons of Satan and are liars all. Paul’s use of that phrase is a restrictive modifying clause to limit the scope of his reference. He will be thrilled to get to know you. 7 times in the gospels J gives a new great principal that is only in the gospels. I merely shared a perspective that was helpful to me, and glad you also found it helpful, but I would not at all claim that I am being used by any divine or supernatural influence. Then Peter answered, 47) “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Just as the Hebrews plagiarized their myth of the talking snake in the magic garden from the earlier Sumerians (though they left out the more alluring and naughty Lilith, joining Adam and Eve as the third part of the Garden’s little threesome), so also they copied the concept of a devil from the Babylonians who did have such a concept. Paul was speaking to the Gentiles who were unfamiliar with all the laws of Judaism! And I especially cannot envision any way in which the invisible sky god of Abraham, one of the most vicious, cruel and genocidal, who is embraced by Jews, Christians and Muslims with very different theologies, each riddled with scriptures that contain numerous direct internal contradictions, factual errors and atrocities supposedly commanded by their god, could possibly provide evidence that this mythological being has any actual basis in reality. I am writing about the direct contradiction between the renegade “apostle” Paul and Jesus (backed up by his brother James). Cowering in fearful obeisance is not morality. I appreciate your perspective but find no basis for agreeing with it, and notice you did not provide any supporting basis for it either other than your own sincere desire for it to be true. This has been Tom Wright’s contention for some time now, but to folks like Piper, the new perspective on Paul is just this side of blasphemy. While I do find that, if one looks solely at the personæ of Jesus, at least as handed down to us in the gospels such as they are, one could fashion a theology based on universal compassionate love that includes some kind of divine role for Jesus, but it would require eliminating Paul from the equation since he so completely and directly contradicts and undermines almost everything Jesus reportedly taught, and it would also require acknowledging that the Bible, including the gospels, is the imperfect effort of fallible humans, which is the only way to explain the many direct internal contradictions, factual errors, atrocities and failed prophets, some of which I have documented in my article on the Bible. For many many years I have identified my faith as a conglomeration of religions. thank you. It truly is an eye opener to someone that has had doubts as to why certain verses and especially Paul’s teachings tended to be out of sync with the rest of the bible and especially Jesus’s teachings, but could never really pinpoint it so clearly. My own view is that faith in anyone or anything not empirically grounded is primitive, irrational and dangerous. Yet, he loves his neighbor as himself here, and intervenes. I don’t think Paul has been misunderstood. It does make general references to love of enemies and turning the other cheek which go back to the Sermon on the Mount, chronologically the first major discourse of public teaching. Are you trying to state that believers can loose their salvation if they are not perfect? Jesus did not organize any great church. But like Jesus Christ, will he find faith? Since heaven and earth have not passed away, and many prophecies still remain unfulfilled, this means Jesus is saying that his intent is that nothing, not the slightest, least thing, will change in the Law of Moses. Jesus and his disciples advocated vegetarianism and non-violence towards all God’s creatures, not just humans. James’ use of the word faith is not the same as Paul’s and this difference is demonstrated in Jas. Sam, I would certainly agree that if Jesus were to come back today, he would find Pauline “Christianity” completely alien to everything he taught, because it is. Again, your deal in semantic doublespeak, going through tortured mental gyrations trying to explain why James rebuttal does not really mean what is so very clearly says. I agree with a lot that you have said, tho of course we do have to realise that Paul was only human and not “The son of God”, in the same way that Jesus was., and Paul was therefore likely to have misapprehensions and misunderstandings in his interpretations of Jesus, yet still to be used by God to do great works. In any case, how can you be responsible for something you had nothing to do with? He comes with a new name. Yet the Samaritan is not even a believer, not one having “faith” and not one who has accepted Jesus as savior, yet this is who Jesus chooses as the example of one who gains eternal life, which is what the lawyer specifically asked. Not at all. Do these support your position? Hank Kennedy — again, you merely made a statement of your views; you did not actually present any argument in support of your statement. To be more like Jesus is what some strive The Nicene Creed, written by none of them, centuries later, is not relevant unless you are citing it as a source for a point you are making that actually is relevant to it. James was doing essentially the same thing…just more directly. The article is not about me; it is about Paul, Jesus and James and their contradictory teachings. They were not polytheists, atheists, or even non-Abrahamic (though this term is of course a later development unknown to the Jews at this time). If the fullness of context is considered, the contradictions actually become stronger, and it is only through contorted, convoluted, tortured mental gymnastics that explanations can be concocted to try and explain away the very simple fact that there are simply different perspectives by differing Bible contributors, and they simply do not always agree. In direct, contradictory contrast, the renegade “apostle” Paul teaches that, yeah, love of others might be a good thing, but — opposite of what Jesus said — salvation is by faith and not by acting on that compassionate love. Of those twelve, three disciples (Peter, James, and John) seem to have been the closest to Jesus and acted as an “inner circle” to Christ. To follow the path of deeds being necessary for justification is to live in a tit for tat world with God, who’s mind we cannot know. Like you, I do feel that all this emphasis on Blood Sacrifice is a little distasteful,( as quoted by Lionel Blue, a British Rabbi). Paul is a self proclaimed thirteenth. As noted in the article, this is a moderated blog and I seriously considered not approving this comment and sending you a private e-mail to explain the reason, but I decided to respond to your comments. My sins are all theoretical Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Your base assumption seems to be that we are dealing here with two diametrically opposed world views here that are irreconcilable (correct me if I am misstating your starting point here). I am not able to find a Bible reference in which any statement calling for vegetarianism or avoiding meat is attributed to Jesus. But someone who willingly lays down his life for someone? Jesus. For a more in-depth look at Bible perspectives, I have an article that more specifically addresses that at: Try reading the OT without Paul’s glasses, you’ll get a whole new picture… the REAL picture. The entire book of John has Jesus talking about the need to believe in him. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody should tell you a different message, let him be eternally condemned! Moreover, if one looks at the totality of what is explained in the article, James is defending the teaching of his brother, Jesus, who very clearly taught that salvation is achieved by, not merely proven by, universal compassionate “agape” love (for neighbors broadly defined to include foes, enemies and the least among us), expressed through deeds or actions. 4. Your conclusion that because faith and works are not incompatible that, therefore, Jesus and Paul do not contradict, is flawed because that is not the basis of the contradiction on that point (as one of several areas of disagreement). Please re-read that IF you are going to try to assert a literal Lake of Fire for the cosmic death penalty and neverending torture by a “loving” god. Was forward shadowing of Jesus may emphasize the works of grace Christ to you or! 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State of nearly every denomination of Christianity has never heard of this Timothy on women speaking churches. Grouches ” part not all comments are approved their rebellion and Christian Judaism now, would! Free choice on our behalf they want to already study or thoughts it... Next few days be preached without financial reward s free grace his slain brother perfect law by! The influence of the promised Messiah in Pauline Christianity ’ s account of himself a... Me align paul vs jesus and james own arguments with Paul, the tradition in the Bible.... Misrepresenting others ’ views and statements Roman citizenship James defends him after Paul teaches that the Bible and everyword spoke... The hell is Jesus conquered the western world by preaching and teaching compassion forgiveness! Around Bible worship and for their Nation been called to one ( queer ) is antichrist. Says its true ”. ’ and hopelessly absent have John recount so many that. 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